Comments on: 3-Tier Architecture versus Service Oriented Architecture http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/ XForms Everywhere Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:37:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1.3 by: gregg.andy@yahoo.com http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-574 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:32:50 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-574 thanks alex and what are the steps to implement a three tier architecture? gregg thanks alex

and what are the steps to implement a three tier architecture?

gregg

]]> by: Alessandro Vernet http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-573 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:31:06 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-573 Gregg, Well, the best is to ask them. You can't know much about one's architecture "from the outside". Alex Gregg,

Well, the best is to ask them. You can’t know much about one’s architecture “from the outside”.

Alex

]]> by: gregg.andy@yahoo.com http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-572 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:53:51 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-572 Thanks alessandro. ok so assume (what internal knowledge will i need? and how can i decide on the basis of that internal knowledge? and if they were not using three tier architecture how could three tier architecture be implemented? (This has to be with reference to an online shopping company.) i hope you can help with some more information. . gregg Thanks alessandro.

ok so assume (what internal knowledge will i need? and how can i decide on the basis of that internal knowledge?
and
if they were not using three tier architecture how could three tier architecture be implemented? (This has to be with reference to an online shopping company.) i hope you can help with some more information.
.
gregg

]]> by: Alessandro Vernet http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-571 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 06:36:57 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-571 Gregg, I am not sure if this is really what you are asking, but just looking at their web site you can't. You would need to get some internal knowledge about how their system works. I hope this helps, Alex Gregg,

I am not sure if this is really what you are asking, but just looking at their web site you can’t. You would need to get some internal knowledge about how their system works. I hope this helps,

Alex

]]> by: gregg.andy@yahoo.com http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-570 Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:14:45 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-570 hi.. I am doing some research on xml and need to know the following. how to identify a company is using three tier architecture. then how to identify a company is using three tier architecture with or without xml? benefits of using the XML platform to implement Three-Tier Architecture? Any suggestions please?. hi..
I am doing some research on xml and need to know the following.

how to identify a company is using three tier architecture.

then

how to identify a company is using three tier architecture with or without xml?

benefits of using the XML platform to implement Three-Tier Architecture?

Any suggestions please?.

]]> by: mike http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-136 Sat, 26 Feb 2005 06:41:29 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-136 To clarify: yes I meant something like Java objects. Mostly I am playing devil's advocate here. I prefer the simplicity and clarity of a REST approach that returns XML documents. However, I find myself having to defend this style against the use of SOAP and especially XML-RPC. The latter returns a "native" data structure (Java, Perl, etc.) to the calling program, which, I am frequently told, is a more "efficient" approach, as there is no need for the program to parse XML. I am just trying to better understand the advantages (and disadvantages) of an XML-centric service oriented architecture. To clarify: yes I meant something like Java objects. Mostly I am playing devil’s advocate here. I prefer the simplicity and clarity of a REST approach that returns XML documents. However, I find myself having to defend this style against the use of SOAP and especially XML-RPC. The latter returns a “native” data structure (Java, Perl, etc.) to the calling program, which, I am frequently told, is a more “efficient” approach, as there is no need for the program to parse XML. I am just trying to better understand the advantages (and disadvantages) of an XML-centric service oriented architecture.

]]> by: Erik Bruchez http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-135 Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:22:26 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-135 A quick comment regarding the first poster who is opposing "XML documents” and "data structures". Well, an XML document is a data structure if there ever was any! Do you mean, rather than "data structure", something like Java objects? In any case, the "performance" argument can always be put forth. When people started using Java, they said it did not perform. Nowadays, such an argument has become mostly irrelevant, because of the benefits the Java environment has brought. The same can be said of XML: it provides benefits for a certain category of applications, and it is your call to decide whether those benefits outweigh a potential performance impact. A quick comment regarding the first poster who is opposing “XML documents” and “data structures”. Well, an XML document is a data structure if there ever was any! Do you mean, rather than “data structure”, something like Java objects?

In any case, the “performance” argument can always be put forth. When people started using Java, they said it did not perform. Nowadays, such an argument has become mostly irrelevant, because of the benefits the Java environment has brought. The same can be said of XML: it provides benefits for a certain category of applications, and it is your call to decide whether those benefits outweigh a potential performance impact.

]]> by: Alessandro Vernet http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-134 Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:54:04 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-134 Hank, you make a good point: using XML to describe data definitely has a number of advantages, and drilling down on the down on those benefits would be a good subject for a future entry on this web log. It looks to me like the two main advantages of using XML at the presentation layer is that: 1) Backend systems with which the presentation layer interacts are increasingly using XML as a way to exchange data. So it makes sense to use XML technologies to deal with this data, for instance XSLT to present XML data that comes from backend systems and XForms to capture data from the user through forms and produce an XML document to send to backend systems. 2) XML is well suited as a description language (as opposed to a programming language), and the things that need to be done a the presentation layer are inherently descriptive, for instance: navigation between pages (PCF), page template (XSLT), data validation (W3C Schema, Relax NG), form definition (XForms). Alex Hank, you make a good point: using XML to describe data definitely has a number of advantages, and drilling down on the down on those benefits would be a good subject for a future entry on this web log. It looks to me like the two main advantages of using XML at the presentation layer is that:

1) Backend systems with which the presentation layer interacts are increasingly using XML as a way to exchange data. So it makes sense to use XML technologies to deal with this data, for instance XSLT to present XML data that comes from backend systems and XForms to capture data from the user through forms and produce an XML document to send to backend systems.

2) XML is well suited as a description language (as opposed to a programming language), and the things that need to be done a the presentation layer are inherently descriptive, for instance: navigation between pages (PCF), page template (XSLT), data validation (W3C Schema, Relax NG), form definition (XForms).

Alex

]]> by: Hank Ratzesberger http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-133 Thu, 24 Feb 2005 21:41:04 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-133 I never liked JSP, or any of the plethora of mark-up language add-ons because the break the whole concept of the three tier model. (At the same time, I hope to write a proposal about using xslt within xhtml to do the same thing -- have one file specify the presentation and the services it connects to.) It is not just a matter of everyone "speaking XML" but the reason they are is that XML is good at describing real world data. XML is the Espreranto of data, I think and it has the adoption rate of English. Hank I never liked JSP, or any of the plethora of mark-up language add-ons because the break the whole concept of the three tier model. (At the same time, I hope to write a proposal about using xslt within xhtml to do the same thing — have one file specify the presentation and the services it connects to.) It is not just a matter of everyone “speaking XML” but the reason they are is that XML is good at describing real world data. XML is the Espreranto of data, I think and it has the adoption rate of English.

Hank

]]> by: Alessandro Vernet http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-132 Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:51:08 +0000 http://www.orbeon.com/blog/2005/02/17/3-tier-architecture-versus-service-oriented-architecture/#comment-132 We could argue about the technical benefits of using XML versus other formats for exchanging data between different systems. There certainly are other formats that are more compact than XML (the "more efficient" argument), or that existed before (the "why reinvent the wheel?" argument). Those are all valid arguments. IMHO, the main benefit of using XML to exchange data between systems is that XML is a widely adopted standard. Both the Java and Microsoft camps have adopted XML and are pushing XML and web services. This means that already today, a lot of data in the enterprise is available as XML, and services can be accessed by exchanging XML documents (sometimes through web services). Compare XML for data exchange to the English language for writing scientific papers. Is English the best language out there to write scientific papers? Maybe a linguist would argue that Esperanto is better. But the main benefit of English as a language to write papers is the same as XML as a data exchange format: everyone is using it. Alex We could argue about the technical benefits of using XML versus other formats for exchanging data between different systems. There certainly are other formats that are more compact than XML (the “more efficient” argument), or that existed before (the “why reinvent the wheel?” argument).

Those are all valid arguments. IMHO, the main benefit of using XML to exchange data between systems is that XML is a widely adopted standard. Both the Java and Microsoft camps have adopted XML and are pushing XML and web services. This means that already today, a lot of data in the enterprise is available as XML, and services can be accessed by exchanging XML documents (sometimes through web services).

Compare XML for data exchange to the English language for writing scientific papers. Is English the best language out there to write scientific papers? Maybe a linguist would argue that Esperanto is better. But the main benefit of English as a language to write papers is the same as XML as a data exchange format: everyone is using it.

Alex

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